Getting started with sourdough

[labradors]

Although there have been a few threads that have mentioned sourdough, I haven't really seen any for absolute beginners, with discussions of starters, etc.

I'd like to experiment with sourdough, and have seen LOTS of recipes for starters. Some of them even include yeast. That would seem like "cheating," to me, but maybe there are some merits to it that someone could bring up. Otherwise, I'd like to get some starter recipes, and would also like to learn how to enhance the sourness of the bread if a particular starter just isn't that sour.

Sourdough bread is rare, here, and one local bakery has been making and selling some, but it is hardly sour at all. It's delicious bread, but nothing like what I would call sourdough. Of course, I know that some of that has to do with exactly which strains of yeast are naturally available in the air of the location where the starter is made, so maybe my attempts will be similarly "unsour." If so, maybe "cheating" by adding some yeast at the outset could help, but I'd like to know YOUR opinions, especially if you have experience in working with sourdough.

Thanks!

[Gourmet_Mom]

Sorry, Labs. I've only done sandwich, French and Italian breads.

You've probably been to these sites, but I thought I throw them out there. They have some good info, IMHO. Breadtopia and Artisan Bread Baking. Then the King Arthur Flour site is MY go to place. I've had great success with things I've tried from there. I find that I always have to "play" with a bread recipe before it looks, feels, and tastes just right.

[cjs]

I have an old friend's recipe around here somewhere and since I'm cleaning out old recipes I'll probaby run across it.

Sourdough - I love the pancakes and waffles...I do know where those recipes are tho.

[labradors]

Daphne: Those first two are new to me. Thanks. I'll try them. Although I do like the King Arthur site, in general, the starter recipe they have there includes yeast, and I wanted to get everyone's opinion on that before just "cheating."

Jean: Thanks. Have you actually made some bread with that friend's recipe? How sour was it? There used to be a restaurant called "The Pub," in central New Jersey, that was known for its prime rib, but they also had outstanding sourdough. That was 30 years ago, though, so I don't know it they're even still there, or not.

[BarbaraS]

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Jean: Thanks. Have you actually made some bread with that friend's recipe? How sour was it? There used to be a restaurant called "The Pub," in central New Jersey, that was known for its prime rib, but they also had outstanding sourdough. That was 30 years ago, though, so I don't know it they're even still there, or not.

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It's still there, just over the Ben Franklin bridge on Airport Circle!

Barbara

[cjs]

O.K. I found it - it's Marlene's (dacook) from the Yukon. She brought it to one of the fundraiser dinners and made the rolls for the dinner and they darn near did not get out to the folks, we were eating so fast!

Here's her starter -


SOURDOUGH STARTER - MARLENE

Sourdough starter is a living organism and as such needs food, oxygen and warmth to grow. Put the starter in a glass jar with a lid, and punch holes in the lid. Starter that is not refrigerated has a sharper bite than if it is. Adding baking soda to any recipe reduces this bite.

Starter:
2 medium baking potatoes, diced
3 cups water
1/2 cup flour
1 teaspoon sugar

Boil potatoes until overdone and the liquid is thick.
Take one cup of liquid and cool to room temperature.
Add one teaspoon sugar.
Add flour to make a thin paste.
Leave at room temperature for about 3 days (fermentation will take place).

When fermented, you may use in any recipe for sourdough bread.
If a better sourdough flavour is desired, take one teaspoon of this starter, add one cup warm water, half cup flour and one teaspoon sugar. Let stand at room temperature for a few days to ferment. This process may be repeated until desired flavour has been reached.

If you are using the starter on a regular basis, remember to replace the amount you take out with equal parts warm water and flour, along with a little sugar.

If you do not use it on a regular basis, store it in the fridge, but take it out now and then, feed it ½ cup flour, 1 cup warm water and 1 teaspoon sugar and let it warm up for 12 hours or so. Always take it out and feed it 12 hours before you plan to use it.

She also dries it and brought pkgs of the dried to a bunch of us in Colorado - I still have mine, 'cause I've always killed my starter and I was waiting to retire and have the time to give it. (but I forgot all about it.)

Here are some more of her notes/recipes for you to look over....

Sourdough Bread

The sourdough bread and pancake recipes that I use come from a 1980 Kiwanis Club cookbook. I believe it was a one-time publishing, and is no longer available.

1 cup sourdough starter
2-1/2 cup warm water
7-1/2 cup flour
2 tbsp. cooking oil
1 tbsp. salt
2 tbsp. sugar
2 tbsp. baking soda

Mix the starter thoroughly with the water and 5 cups flour in a large bowl. Cover with a damp cloth or plastic wrap and leave overnight or at least 12 hours in a warm place. Add the oil, salt, sugar and baking soda to the sourdough and stir until well mixed. Then add the remaining 2½ cups of flour.

Mix by hand, and then turn out onto a floured board. Knead until the dough is smooth. Add more flour as needed, but do not make the dough too stiff. Divide into 3 pieces. Round each piece and let rest 15 minutes. Shape into loaves.

Suggested pan size is 8”x4”x3”. Let rise in warm place until nearly double in size, 2 to 4 hours. Brush lightly with melted butter. Bake in preheated 425º oven for 5 minutes, reduce heat to 350º, and bake another 25 to 35 minutes.

This is the recipe that I used at Florian's. I have tried other recipes in the past couple of months, just to see if I could find one better than this, with no success. Divde into 1/4's, then each 1/4 into 6 pieces to make 24 dinner rolls. Bake off at 350º for 25 - 30 minutes, with a pan of water on the lower rack.
Edited because I forgot to tell you to put them on a greased pan sprinkled with cornmeal and kosher or sea salt. Roll your shaped roll in the cornmeal and salt on the pan before placing it where it will be baked. Then slash the tops lightly with a sharp knife to allow it to expand properly. Some of these things that I take for granted, I forget that other people don't know.

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Starting a new batch will not give you the flavour of what Lorraine, Billy or I have, because what we have is well over a year old, and has really developed a characteristic of it's own, that a young starter will not have. Moselle was at the dinner and can attest to the difference in taste between the old starter and the taste of the new one. It needs to develop that flavour over a period of time. I just reconstitued my last "back-up" package of dried sourdough last night. It is doing well, but not nearly to the quantity that I can still use some, and dry some. The characteristics of it will also change over time at Lorraine's house in Toronto and at Billy's in Meatball, as it takes on more wild yeasts from the local area you may notice a subtle change in flavour. I think Lorraine may notice the difference more. I have this "theory" that the strains of wild yeast that make good sourdough in both the Yukon and San Francisco are basically all along the west coast, but I guess we will find out once Lorraine and Billy have been using it for several months, and get feedback from them.
Lorraine, yes that would work fine, drying just as I instructed you to do with the excess. But remember to always keep a back-up of dried for yourself first, then take care of others. You never know when something could go wrong with it. IE: the cat or dog knocking it off the counter when you are not around, some "critter" (fly, etc.) getting into it, when you have it or the flour bucket open, or ....or....or. I would not have been able to make those rolls in Windsor if I had not kept "back-up", as something went very wrong with my starter a little more than a week before I was to go to Windsor. Don't worry it got a decent burial in the throne room.

Hope all this gets you going in the right direction.

[labradors]

Jean: Thanks! Shall DEFINITELY be trying this!

Barb: Cool! It's a great place. Also had really good Caesar salad.

[Lorraine]

" Starting a new batch will not give you the flavour of what Lorraine, Billy or I have "

I managed to kill all of mine very promptly. I hadn't met Gil at that time, or I would have given it to him. He's the breadmaker, not me.

[labradors]

Quote:

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Mix by hand, and then turn out onto a floured board. Knead until the dough is smooth.

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Jean,

How do you think this would do with a mixer with a dough hook? If it would work okay, do you have any suggestions?

[Gourmet_Mom]

You'll probably want to wait for Jean, since she posted the recipe, but for my two cents, I use my mixer when I make mine. It's not sourdough, but I don't think it would make a difference.